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【疑问】西方与国王秘密结婚的“无冕之后”都什么待遇?

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感觉叶一是整个西方待遇最高的秘密结婚的情妇,没有之一,不仅享受沙皇皇后的礼仪,彼得一还要求在他去世后给叶一“皇太后的等级、特权和收入”,算是真正的“无冕之后”了。法鸡的曼特农虽然也有“无冕之后”的称呼,但跟真王后差的还是比较远。历史上其他几个与国王秘密结婚的情妇都享受什么待遇?或是戴安这种虽没结婚但对国王影响力超级巨大的也可以扒。欢迎各个吧友讨论。


IP属地:甘肃来自Android客户端1楼2023-11-15 19:55回复
    除了老公种马,叶一各种待遇真的算顶级了,读到这里我都震惊了。让秘密结婚的情妇享受皇后礼仪,并且在国王去世后继续享受王太后待遇……我西方史了解的不多,但感觉真的是前无古人,后来者也寥寥……:@贴吧用户_GPACt7Q @贴吧用户_QXeWRG2 @grace + @可乐酷酷射手 @Licha_
    So, on 7 March 1711 he called the members of the royal family together and coolly informed them that Catherine was his 'Consort'.Henceforth they must all pay her the respects due to a Tsarina, and if any misfortune should befall him on campaign, she should be accorded the rank, privileges and revenues of an imperial countered all objections in advance. It was true that his first wife was still alive, but Catherine was his wife to all intents and purposes, and though he had not yet 'had the time', as he put it, to go through a ceremony of marriage with her, this he would do 'at the first opportunity'.


    IP属地:甘肃来自Android客户端2楼2023-11-15 20:01
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      IP属地:甘肃来自Android客户端6楼2023-11-15 20:34
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        叶一和彼得一秘密结婚后,与彼得一出访波兰,王子为她献上舞会,国王也以礼相待。并且叶一还代表彼得一与德意志大使商讨公主与阿列克谢皇太子的婚事。不过这一点很多权势大的情妇都能做到:
        Prince Radziwill gave a ball in her honour,and the King himself greeted her with every courtesy-but then he was virtually a Russian puppet. The Ambassador of the little Ger-man state of Wolfenbüttel for one had grave doubts about the propriety of making an official call on a woman of such ill repute.
        However, since he had business to transact with the Tsar-negotiating a marriage between Princess Charlotte of Wolfenbüttel and the Tsarevich Alexei-he reckoned it would only be politic to do so. When the Ambassador called, Peter was in her room pretending to be absorbed with various mathematical instruments and maps, but he listened anxiously to every word that passed be-tween the Ambassador and his mistress.


        IP属地:甘肃来自Android客户端7楼2023-11-15 20:50
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          彼得一对原配长子真渣爹,阿列克谢太子生下彼得二后,彼得却不高兴,因为他更想传位给叶一可能生下的男孩。(Peter ordered a general salute, but he himself was less than joyful. He would have preferred to see the succession pass to a son that Catherine might bear)叶一生下男孩后,彼得直接就考虑另立太子,甚至为了不让已经成年的阿列克谢与异母弟相争,彼得要求他出家(Peter demanded that his son join a monastery. )。这是有多讨厌这个儿子呀@贴吧用户_GPACt7Q @贴吧用户_QXeWRG2


          IP属地:甘肃来自Android客户端9楼2023-11-15 21:21
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            还得是法鸡,彼得与叶一一起周游西欧时,其他各国都承认了叶一的皇后身份,只有法鸡不认,不让叶一进凡尔赛,彼得只能给叶一买各种礼物安慰她。(当然英国连彼得本人都不欢迎)
            By the end of February Peter was well enough to show her toured Amsterdam, sailed the canals, and saw the little house at Zaardam where Peter had lived when, years before, he had worked as an apprentice in the shipyards. She went to Utrecht, to Rotterdam,and to the Hague, where 'all imaginable Honours were paid her',met the merchant Christopher Brandt and others of Peter's old friends, looked at buildings, admired van Dycks, Rubens , Brueghels,Rembrandts, but above all the seascapes of Adam Silo, of which they bought several to decorate their house at Peterhof.
            But when Peter left for Paris, Catherine stayed behind in Holland,the French having made it clear that she would not be welcome at their court. As for the English, they refused to receive even Peter now, apparently on her account. He did his best to console her,sending her presents by every post. Lace arrived from Brussels,then a parrot, some canaries, a monkey, a selection of plants, a French dwarf, and, towards the end of April, a giant, seven foot five inches tall named Nicholas Bourgeois whom Peter had found in Calais and sent on with a note enjoining Catherine to have him well fed and cared for.


            IP属地:甘肃来自Android客户端10楼2023-11-15 21:46
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              感觉彼得叶一真的很有普通夫妻的感觉,这也是我磕他们的原因,孩子出生,彼得一写信说自己一是高兴又有了新孩子,二是高兴妻子不用再承受怀孕的痛苦(虽然之后依然免不了生生生,叶一一共生了11个孩子呢):
              Catherine had only reached Wessel when on 2 January 1717 she gave birth to another son. The child died within twenty-four hours,but Peter's letter reacting to the birth reached her some time after-wards. The news, he wrote, 'has delighted me doubly-firstly because of the new-born child, and also because God has freed you from your pains, at which I, too, feel better.


              IP属地:甘肃来自Android客户端11楼2023-11-15 22:04
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                有点意外啊,彼得一好像在婚姻前期也不是那么的种马(或者说种马的不是那么明目张胆),至少在结婚10年时,叶一听说彼得在德国piao了感觉很难过,彼得表示纯属谣言,并且找到造谣者打了一顿。而且piao对彼得还属于“rare”的程度。确实不是像路易九这种贞洁烈夫,也不是卡洛斯五世这种小节暧昧,大节不亏的这种,算是注意妻子感受的种马。@可乐酷酷射手
                They were both in low spirits, Catherine particularly, since she had heard that Peter had taken a prostitute when he was in Ger-many. Peter attached little importance to what had become for him a comparatively rare indulgence. He spent less on other women, he boasted once, than any other monarch in Europe. Anyway, there was only one woman whom he loved, and she need have no fears about any transitory affair of his. So the quarrel was made up,though Peter took pains to track down the tale-bearer and have him soundly beaten.


                IP属地:甘肃来自Android客户端12楼2023-11-15 22:39
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                  沙俄和西欧,东欧王权不太一样,但叶一绝对算事迹很好的。。欧洲史我个人感觉忠诚分和事迹分确实要分开,和中国还不太一样,忠诚无情妇,但没啥事迹的国王夫妇并不是个案。 我之前举过例子,英王里就有狮心王,亨利五。。还不止。。勃艮第西方大公爵大胆查理。。而且远不止这些案例。。事迹蛮多的国王夫妇或者情妇。。但不忠的也有的。。但太不忠我感觉还是有些扣分


                  IP属地:北京来自Android客户端13楼2023-11-15 22:57
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                    中世纪,文艺复兴和近代又不同,因为文献记录和档案留存力度不一样了。。尤其是信件,中世纪是羊皮卷,那时候信整体都少,有些国王都未必有私人信件留下来。。;文艺复兴时期因为印刷术和纸张,能留下信件多了,比如法王路易十一,有私人信件上千封留下来,但中世纪很多法王几乎没有信留下来。近代就更多。。彼得这个相当于是打仗之前的临时遗嘱,非常关照叶一,说明她很有地位了,我在英王那个帖子里举过例子,爱三在1359年去法国打仗的临时遗嘱,直接把他所有珠宝留给王后。。如果他战死了,全都归老婆私人所有,遗嘱执行人不得过问(相当于他把个人最重要的财产交给老婆)


                    IP属地:北京来自Android客户端14楼2023-11-15 23:03
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                      遗嘱(临时遗嘱)是一个人性格的很重要反馈。。也给了美男子腓力的遗嘱,他临终最主要就关心他给老婆和自己捐赠的基金会,遗嘱这个也挺重要的,爱三临终记得给他和已经去世了8年多的老婆捐永久弥撒,但一句话没提自己的情妇和情妇的追随(半分钱遗赠都没有)


                      IP属地:北京来自Android客户端15楼2023-11-15 23:09
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                        私人信就比较难跨时代比,因为中世纪信留存不容易,爱三老婆就一封给爱三的信都没留下来(爱三有写给她很多信),但爱二夫妻还留下不少私人信,中期还互相称呼sweet heart,但法兰西伊莎贝拉父母就一封私人信都没留存,当然这有可能是因为他们很少分开,或者是法鸡档案保管差,爱一夫妇也没什么私人信留下来


                        IP属地:北京来自Android客户端16楼2023-11-15 23:15
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                          发一段板鸭波旁卡洛斯三世传记里面的(他们一家人也特别八卦):卡三和哥哥费尔南多六也是绝对的好男人。。:
                          从 1716 年 1 月 20 日在马德里出生起,卡洛斯王子的生活就成为了许多政治阴谋的中心,因为尽管他的父亲菲利普五世通过《乌得勒支条约》最终坐上了王位,但作为前安茹王子,他对当时由路易十五所佩戴的法国王冠充满了渴望,而路易十五当时还是个孩子,而且还是个娇弱的孩子。
                          菲利普五世的性格并不容易确定。他的母亲是维特尔斯巴赫(Wittelsbach)人,他从母亲那里继承了严重的忧郁症,有时几乎达到疯狂的地步,并且长期沉溺于与世隔绝的生活,而这正是这个家族代代相传至今的一些成员的特征。——十四的传记也说大王太子老婆精神非常不稳定。。,茜茜公主就是这个家族的。我感觉可能存在家族遗传。
                          他的父亲是波旁王朝的人,他完全拥有波旁王朝可怕的性欲。南希-米特福德(Nancy Mitford)小姐在她对蓬巴杜夫人的迷人研究中提醒她的读者,曼特侬夫人七十五岁时,路易十四也已经七十岁,她告诉她的忏悔者,每天和他做爱两次让她非常疲惫。
                          来自卡洛斯三的英文传记:Petrie, Sir Charles (1971). King Charles III of Spain: An Enlightened Despot. London: Constable.


                          IP属地:北京17楼2023-11-15 23:40
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                            感觉彼得一和叶一这种暴躁老哥和温柔软妹的相处模式也很好磕:@贴吧用户_QXeWRG2
                            在接下来的几个月里,彼得以新的活力投入到将俄罗斯“野兽”变成“人”的任务中,因为他将自己的臣民描述为“畜牲”,因此他并不容易相处。重组政府,建立新的产业,收紧税收制度,他遇到了不可避免的挫折,凯瑟琳不得不动用她所有的机智和耐心来维持他和他的助手之间的和平,这些助手每天都会惹怒他。”彼得曾承认,“我很容易发脾气”,但他补充道,““像我的凯瑟琳那样,当熟悉我的人告诉我这件事并向我提出抗议时,我就不会生气。”


                            IP属地:甘肃来自Android客户端18楼2023-11-16 00:01
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                              感觉不只沙俄,真与国王亲近的人想不牵涉ZZ都难,纳瓦拉的让娜已经是努力不干涉ZZ,挨不住她老公想给她报仇@贴吧用户_QXeWRG2
                              他重新发起的反腐败运动给亚历山大·缅希科夫(Alexander Menshikov)带来了新的麻烦,因为他本来就没有财务诚实的能力。作为彼得的得力助手,他比大多数人拥有更多的机会,当他把手伸进国库时,他把它们挖得很深。彼得殴打了他,并威胁要杀死他。凯瑟琳设法拯救了她昔日的保护者,但其他人就没那么幸运了。外交官沙菲罗夫耻辱地被驱逐;首席财政官涅斯特罗夫被送上了绞刑架。
                              彼得的工作狂率和反复出现的疼痛加剧了他的忧郁性格。他的脾气变得更加暴躁,他的阴郁情绪更加阴郁。只有凯瑟琳没有受到他愤怒的波及,随着他对她的依赖被人越来越广泛地认识到,她不情愿地被卷入政治舞台。受到威胁的人的亲戚来求她求情;各种各样的请愿者来敲她的门,由于在俄罗斯,人物就是政治,她开始发挥影响力,因此拥有一定的权力——尽管她总是把它用于她认为彼得的利益上。


                              IP属地:甘肃来自Android客户端19楼2023-11-17 08:02
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